It gets a good press, does faith. Almost to the point where it’s its own defense. You can’t attack someone’s faith - it’s precious. Faith is set up as the ultimate positive human endeavour, even when it’s a misapplied. For example, saying “you’ve restored my faith in humanity” is bullshit, becuase you’re actually saying “you’ve provided me with tangible evidence that goes against my previously more pessimistic view of humanity”. That’s not faith. That’s reacting to evidence. It’s faith stealing a good reputation from secular human kindness.
I suppose my answer is that I don’t really mind an individual’s faith, as weird as I may find their particular unquestionable beliefs. But I do hate the fact that faith is held up to be an unequivocal good, when all it amounts to is religious spin for “swallowing any counter-intuitive or transparently nonsense shit you’re told by someone in the right clothes”.

The wank helped, though.

Lets get back to pooing and weeing now and calling Brenda a cunt.

“Occam’s Razor my arse”

Pascal’s Wager, my cunt.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to have a wank.

“Just to clarify - I don’t believe in the biblical God, per se, I’m more of a pantheist/god-as-part-of-our-own-conscience kinda guy. Not sure which yet; maybe it’s both, or neither.”

In what peculiar language, of which peculiar nation, is THAT a clarification?

Perhaps more importantly, the description that you give above is the religious equivalent of vegetarians who eat chicken. If you’re going to do something, do it properly. This whole “I’m a Christian but I don’t believe most of the Bible, and really, I kind of believe in all Gods, but only a bit” schpiel sounds awfully like you just want there to be something big and comforting out there rather than actually believing in it. Sort of like Lynus’ blanket on a cosmic scale.

And bear in mind that this is from someone who has had in depth religious discussions* with Log, where I argued against his cast-iron atheism.

*we shouted drunkenly at each other for 6 hours.

I’m so glad you gave us the opportunity to talk about our spirituality. I’m definitely one of the most spiritual people I know and practice meditation because it keeps me in touch with the sacred nature of all things and helps me lift the karma of others whether they know it or not. I like the colour blue (though all colours are good, vibrationally speaking) and the sound of summer rain on a forest canopy. I welcome people of all races and cultures and would like to help the orphans of an African nation, perhaps with the gift of song. I like to think that the words might provide a kind of nourishment to them that would last longer than a bag of rice. When it comes to sexuality I think we are all pretty much polymorphously perverse and that each human libido is a treasure box of diversity. I am a child of the world and the future is our destiny.

Love is the law, love under will.

*delete as applicable.

We’re not going to convince each other here, you’re right. Just send topless pics and read this excellent book about meditation.

* I suppose you could ask the opposite, why I’m so unwilling to accept an external source of wonder that only appears when you close your eyes and think hard. I just try to explain things in terms I can understand, instead of terms which force me to throw my arms across the room and say “oh, well, I guess that’s just plain amazing then”.

“You can’t just take Jesus out of the Bible and say he was the one cool thing.”

Yes you bloody can!!! The Bible was written over hundreds of years, by different people, in different locations, at different times, each with slighly different myths, legends, and belief systems… and then there’s the undeniable fact that text would have become corrupted through translation & bias - perhaps many times over. The Bible is like a “Greatest Hits” album of the theosophical literature around at the time. And, like a greatest hits album, a lot of it’s ugly messy dirge. Saying you’ve got to believe the whole thing is like saying you’ve got to listen to every track on “Now 44″. To put it another way, you don’t keep the dirt when panning for gold.

I don’t buy the “gods son” thing either, really;- either we’re all gods children, or somehow we must earn the right to become one of gods kids. Jesus referred to himself both as “son of god” and “son of man”:- i.e. he admits he is just a human. But quite where he learnt those cool powers is a matter of great interest to me… and is one of the main reason I like Christianity. I WANT SUPERPOWERS!!!! And I’ve had something a ‘bit’ like them… just not for very long - but then I’m not a very good Christian.

Whether Jesus even existed is immaterial… even if we take it as read he’s a character as fictional as in any other legend, (like… er… theseus or summat) that doesn’t affect the wisdom contained in the Bible stories. But hey… I accept that, whatever my arguments, it’s all unprovable conjecture on my part; I ask only that, before dismissing all religion as fantastical whimsy, you try meditation. If THAT doesn’t tickle your “there’s something else out there” bone, nothing will.

From now on, I promise to not to insult or deride you, Log. I have the utmost respect for your intelligence & humour, and this was clearly the wrong place and method for me to take issue with your religious stance. I will return to being polite, lovely and strange. Susan can put her monocle back in.

Now let us never speak of this again. Forgive me, Log, for I know not what I do.

You know the only (probably not the only reason) that Muslims think they’re so great is that they have the youngest major religion and therefore anything else that God or his messengers had supposedly said up to that point had been rough drafts of what was to come. According to the Muslims you should consider all other preceding religions as Alpha and Beta releases. You could argue the point with them I guess, but I’m not sure that the words “reason, doubt and liberal” are included in the Koran so you may end up on the business end of a Middle East Party Popper. By which I mean car-bomb.

Fuck ME that was a sweeping generalisation and incredible exercise in stereotyping. Do I win?

I don’t know why it would be startling, but it is. “Hello, I am an x-tian, here is a swear. Minges.”

It just doesn’t seem right.